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  • Belmont - UBS Arena

    I think it's time to officially launch it's own separate thread.

  • #2
    Originally posted by gazaroog View Post
    I think it's time to officially launch it's own separate thread.
    You're feeling confident?
    "We’re all buying in. There’s pride about being an Islander.”

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Dom View Post

      There is no money to offer them to go to the NVMC, because they don't make any money there.

      An offer to remain in Brooklyn (where they BOTH make money), absolutely. That's exactly what I've been saying all along.
      We have a circular discussion on that one. If the Islanders were making Barclays money, why would they tell the Islanders that they want them in the Coliseum? They literally said that.

      Let's just start this by stating that I think Belmont will make them the most money and this is what I am hoping for. It may have some warts (like not having restaurants around it, which could change), but I think it's clearly the best option. With that said.....

      Barclays wants the Islanders out of Barclays and the Islanders want out of Barclays. Attendance has not been good. The corporate suites are empty. So if there is no demand for corporate suites for the Islanders, why would Barclays fork over money to share in the revenue/profit from the corporate suites from all of their events combined? The concerts and to a lesser degree, the Nets, are what put fannies in the corporate suites. Between that and the poor attendance and the fact that they run an arena on Long Island that needs an anchor tenant, it makes all the sense in the world that they would want the Islanders in the Coliseum. The $50M (actually less than that) guaranteed revenue would need a severe haircut for it to make sense to go to Barclays. Perhaps we can have another separate discussion of why the attendance is not good, but let's keep that separate from here. These are just the facts surrounding everything.

      Now here is the real kicker for Barclays, they can't afford to have the Islanders build a new arena. If they do, that means it cuts into their concert revenue, which is a big portion of how they earn their money. So they HAVE TO make a good deal to the Islanders. I think this part we agree on. I just don't see them making the offer to stay in the Barclays over the Coliseum for the reasons I stated above. And the Islanders can milk Barclays to say "if you really want to keep us and at the Coliseum, pay for more renovations - like build out the concourse and then maybe we consider it". "You also have to just take concession and parking money from us as our rent". If Barclays doesn't do it, then they pose the risk of having Belmont go up., which is a much worse situation.

      Now let's talk about the Coliseum and why I don't agree with you at all that they can't make money there. The Islanders never made money at the Coliseum because of the deal they had with SMG. In the last couple of seasons at the Coliseum, that SMG agreement was gone and word was that they made money in their last 2 seasons. There is a reason why Wang wanted to still stay at the Coliseum if the referendum vote went through.

      So now let's look at the financial picture. The Islanders were making $50M guaranteed (again, actually less than this). The Islanders also have a guaranteed sweet cable deal that makes them on average $27M a year (it's more than that as each year goes by). So between the 2, the Islanders were making money. Your question is, how would they make money at the Coliseum? Very easily:

      - Let's use a low average ticket price in the NHL which is $67 (this is towards the bottom of the league). Let's use average attendance of 14K. That's $39M over 41 games.
      - Revenue sharing would be probably around $25M.

      Just like that the Islanders would earn $64M. That's $14M MORE than Barclays was giving them, and they have no debt to finance for not building a new arena.

      You tell me, you think this won't be contemplated by Ledecky and Malkin?

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Tjay View Post

        You're feeling confident?
        Yes. The political bureaucracy is cut out of this situation. This is state property and their decision (and out of all of the public RFPs, the Islanders make the most sense). Not even the NIMBYs have a say on this one. Once Cuomo agrees, a shovel can go in the ground.

        Now granted, I'm sure it's not going to be that easy, but it is a lot less complex than any other option for building a new arena. So yes, I am getting more confident this will happen.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by gazaroog View Post
          If the Islanders were making Barclays money, why would they tell the Islanders that they want them in the Coliseum?
          Because they want to negotiate a BETTER deal for themselves.

          And that's not "if," because they have already admitted they did in public disclosure documents to their investors/shareholders.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Dom View Post

            Because they want to negotiate a BETTER deal for themselves.

            And that's not "if," because they have already admitted they did in public disclosure documents to their investors/shareholders.
            What would make them more money:

            - 20-30 more concerts at Barclays (in lieu of the Islanders) and the Islanders as an anchor tenant at the Coliseum OR
            - The Islanders at Barclays

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by gazaroog View Post

              What would make them more money:

              - 20-30 more concerts at Barclays (in lieu of the Islanders) and the Islanders as an anchor tenant at the Coliseum OR
              - The Islanders at Barclays
              Answer is, the Islanders at Barclays, and it's not even close.

              And it's backed up by the fact that they disclosed that they made more money with the Isles in their first year there, than they did the year before, which also coincided with M$G being closed for renovations over the summer. Which means they had all the concerts they could possibly handle, because it was a brand new building, with no competition in NYC, with plenty of free dates over that summer AND winter, and yet they still made more money the next year when the Isles moved in.

              The truth is, there just aren't that many acts out there which can draw enough to fill the building. Also, they had stats which showed that concession sales were much higher for Isles games.

              And further proof is - they have allowed more Saturday games for the Isles this year, after eschewing them for our first 2 years there.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Dom View Post

                Answer is, the Islanders at Barclays, and it's not even close.

                And it's backed up by the fact that they disclosed that they made more money with the Isles in their first year there, than they did the year before, which also coincided with M$G being closed for renovations over the summer. Which means they had all the concerts they could possibly handle, because it was a brand new building, with no competition in NYC, with plenty of free dates over that summer AND winter, and yet they still made more money the next year when the Isles moved in.

                The truth is, there just aren't that many acts out there which can draw enough to fill the building. Also, they had stats which showed that concession sales were much higher for Isles games.

                And further proof is - they have allowed more Saturday games for the Isles this year, after eschewing them for our first 2 years there.
                Well they made more money there sure, because there was more revenue no question. As for the concerts and filling the dates, you make some good observations and you could be right there, but again, I really do think they want the Isles at the Coliseum.

                Keep in mind too Dom, they slashed season tix prices almost in half from last year. If they are filling the place and making money, how does that happen?

                Time will tell I suppose.

                Comment


                • #9
                  40 years of owners crying poverty this is undisputed. A local government that actively plots against the team. No corporate support and a 40 year history of poor attendance unless they were winning a cup

                  take the guarantee money out of Barclays. The Isles netted a million per playoff game unheard of on LI.

                  Isles have NO arena debt which makes the money made in BK that more valuable.

                  2 years in BK and the team and arena made money and just like everything else each side is looking for more.

                  Colisieum is a non starter, substandard arena and location.

                  Owners want Belmont but won't be owners long after arena is built. Area around will not be developed just like the area around the Colisieum that was planned originally and Isles will die a slow death until they are forced to move.

                  Oakview(MSG) with arena rights does not care if Isles eventually move because they have hurt their major competitor both in main and minor league arena.

                  once again Isles a pawn.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Jethro View Post
                    40 years of owners crying poverty this is undisputed. A local government that actively plots against the team. No corporate support and a 40 year history of poor attendance unless they were winning a cup

                    take the guarantee money out of Barclays. The Isles netted a million per playoff game unheard of on LI.

                    Isles have NO arena debt which makes the money made in BK that more valuable.

                    2 years in BK and the team and arena made money and just like everything else each side is looking for more.

                    Colisieum is a non starter, substandard arena and location.

                    Owners want Belmont but won't be owners long after arena is built. Area around will not be developed just like the area around the Colisieum that was planned originally and Isles will die a slow death until they are forced to move.

                    Oakview(MSG) with arena rights does not care if Isles eventually move because they have hurt their major competitor both in main and minor league arena.

                    once again Isles a pawn.
                    The bold is to me the biggest reason that they will not come back to the Coliseum. Forget the numbers or the deal that can be made.

                    We would immediately be back to a minor league arena, making it again nearly impossible to attract or keep top players, relegating us to being a mid market team at best, more like a cap floor team.



                    "There’s unfinished business," coach Barry Trotz said.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by mw147 View Post

                      The bold is to me the biggest reason that they will not come back to the Coliseum. Forget the numbers or the deal that can be made.

                      We would immediately be back to a minor league arena, making it again nearly impossible to attract or keep top players, relegating us to being a mid market team at best, more like a cap floor team.


                      You can force Barclay's hand to make some renovations. Again, the Islanders can just move forward with Belmont. Barclays has to swoon the Islanders away from that.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by gazaroog View Post

                        You can force Barclay's hand to make some renovations. Again, the Islanders can just move forward with Belmont. Barclays has to swoon the Islanders away from that.
                        "Some renovations" won't cut it. To me that ends the discussion.

                        Belmont or bust!!!
                        "There’s unfinished business," coach Barry Trotz said.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by mw147 View Post

                          "Some renovations" won't cut it. To me that ends the discussion.

                          Belmont or bust!!!
                          I don't get that actually. Other than the concourse, I have no problems with the Coliseum. And you know what, the players still talk about the atmosphere inside the building.

                          I think the only other thing that they would have to do is overhaul the locker rooms.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by gazaroog View Post

                            I don't get that actually. Other than the concourse, I have no problems with the Coliseum. And you know what, the players still talk about the atmosphere inside the building.

                            I think the only other thing that they would have to do is overhaul the locker rooms.
                            Atmosphere dont pay the bills

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Jethro View Post

                              Atmosphere dont pay the bills
                              Did you read my post before all the way through? I put the numbers around it.

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