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2021 Offseason Thread

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  • Originally posted by TK27 View Post

    I have noticed lately that the combo of Pelech and Pulock are getting respect from all over North America. They are pretty much being crowned the best pair in hockey. I expect Pelech to make the Olympic team.
    If they want to win, it would be the right idea to put him on. Totally agree.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Scott View Post

      Yes, agree, but just talking too 4 in general relative to Dobson. Noah is better now than those 2 were when they made the jump from a bottom pairing guy, Pulock, and Pelech was garbage. Dobson also had more tajent/potential than both of them, a higher upside.
      Pelech and Pulock were only garbage in the minds of non-knowledgeable fans/media. And I don't agree that Dobson is better than them when they were at his stage. As for talent, maybe you can argue he may have more potential, but I think you need to pump the brakes on your current expectations.

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      • Originally posted by Scott View Post

        If you don’t think Dobson is good enough, who do we have for the 2nd pairing? Nobody, the team is Pulock/Pelech and a bunch of 5-6-7-8’s. We aren’t winning a Cup with that.
        He will be on the 2nd pairing and I didn't say he wasn't good enough. He needs to stay with someone defensive orientated like either Mayfield or Greene to continue to show him the ropes and back up his current defensive deficiencies. That balance definitely could work for a productive 2nd pairing.

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        • Originally posted by gazaroog View Post

          Pelech and Pulock were only garbage in the minds of non-knowledgeable fans/media. And I don't agree that Dobson is better than them when they were at his stage. As for talent, maybe you can argue he may have more potential, but I think you need to pump the brakes on your current expectations.
          Dobson is still only 21. I think he is definitely ahead of where Pelech and Pulock were at that age.

          Neither become a full time NHL player until 2017-18, when they were 23. So hopefully by the time he is 23 Dobson will be at or ahead of where Pelech and Pulock were.
          "There’s unfinished business," coach Barry Trotz said.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by gazaroog View Post

            He will be on the 2nd pairing and I didn't say he wasn't good enough. He needs to stay with someone defensive orientated like either Mayfield or Greene to continue to show him the ropes and back up his current defensive deficiencies. That balance definitely could work for a productive 2nd pairing.
            Yup, that’s why I want them to trade for a proven top 4 defensive defensman to pair with Dobson. Mayfield, Green and Chara, if we sign him, aren’t good enough.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Scott View Post

              Yup, that’s why I want them to trade for a proven top 4 defensive defensman to pair with Dobson. Mayfield, Green and Chara, if we sign him, aren’t good enough.
              agreed. I don't want to see any of that trio on the 2nd pairing.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by mw147 View Post

                Dobson is still only 21. I think he is definitely ahead of where Pelech and Pulock were at that age.

                Neither become a full time NHL player until 2017-18, when they were 23. So hopefully by the time he is 23 Dobson will be at or ahead of where Pelech and Pulock were.
                I'm not referring to age. I am referring to NHL experience at this level/stage.

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                • Experience or no experience, Dobson is a better NHL player at 21 than Pelech or Pulock were.

                  Bottom line is we need all 3 to be Cup quality top 4’s, it’s not a competition between them. The issue is who rounds out the top 4, hopefully that defensman isn’t here yet.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Scott View Post
                    Experience or no experience, Dobson is a better NHL player at 21 than Pelech or Pulock were.

                    Bottom line is we need all 3 to be Cup quality top 4’s, it’s not a competition between them. The issue is who rounds out the top 4, hopefully that defensman isn’t here yet.
                    Pelech and Pulock are getting recognition as the top pairing in the NHL from a lot of people in the hockey world. I just think you need to pump the brakes a bit on Dobson. He's got a lot of work to do.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by gazaroog View Post

                      Pelech and Pulock are getting recognition as the top pairing in the NHL from a lot of people in the hockey world. I just think you need to pump the brakes a bit on Dobson. He's got a lot of work to do.
                      Yes Dobson has a ways to go, but at the same time Scott is right. He doesn't have to be fully formed at this point but we need him to be a legitimate top 4 AND we need him to be able to run a power play. He doesn't have to be an all star, but he needs to be at least adequate, preferably good at both.

                      I disagree with Scott about us not having any other top 4 on the roster. I think Mayfield is a serviceable top 4 for a cup contender. Unfortunately both Dobson and Mayfield are right shots, so we do still need a top 4 left handed shot.

                      "There’s unfinished business," coach Barry Trotz said.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by mw147 View Post

                        Yes Dobson has a ways to go, but at the same time Scott is right. He doesn't have to be fully formed at this point but we need him to be a legitimate top 4 AND we need him to be able to run a power play. He doesn't have to be an all star, but he needs to be at least adequate, preferably good at both.
                        I don't disagree with the point in bold.

                        As for running a PP, I'm not so sure he is ready to "run" a PP. That will be in the control of Barzal with Pulock as your firing weapon from the point. Dobson will get time on the PP for sure, but I'd like to see Pelech get some time on there too. He has underrated offensive skill. He has the ability to carry the puck into the zone, is a good passer and also has the ability to get his shot through. I know some may think he will then get too much time on the ice because of PK responsibilities, but this guy is a workhorse and can handle it. He may be our best conditioned player on D.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by gazaroog View Post

                          Pelech and Pulock are getting recognition as the top pairing in the NHL from a lot of people in the hockey world. I just think you need to pump the brakes a bit on Dobson. He's got a lot of work to do.
                          I think you are missing my point.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by gazaroog View Post

                            I don't disagree with the point in bold.

                            As for running a PP, I'm not so sure he is ready to "run" a PP. That will be in the control of Barzal with Pulock as your firing weapon from the point. Dobson will get time on the PP for sure, but I'd like to see Pelech get some time on there too. He has underrated offensive skill. He has the ability to carry the puck into the zone, is a good passer and also has the ability to get his shot through. I know some may think he will then get too much time on the ice because of PK responsibilities, but this guy is a workhorse and can handle it. He may be our best conditioned player on D.
                            I don't see Pulock on the point of a power play. He has not looked good there in the past.

                            If Dobson is not up to it, I agree about trying Pelech. Pulock plays PP and PK, no reason Pelech can't do the same.

                            Actually Dobson and Pelech should probably be the point guys on the 2 units anyway. Who plays with who is to be determined.

                            "There’s unfinished business," coach Barry Trotz said.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Scott View Post

                              I think you are missing my point.
                              I don't think I am. You mentioned Dobson was more advanced than Pelech and Pulock at their stages of their career (could question between age or NHL experience). To me, the most important responsibility at the NHL for a defenseman is your defensive responsibilities. Dobson still has a way to go in this area and both Pelech and Pulock developed that on the NHL stage quicker than he has.

                              Dobson could have the better skill set than the 3 of of them, but we all know we have seen tons of defenseman who have strong skill sets who never put it all together at the NHL level. There are countless examples. This is why I am trying to lower expectations on him. Hopefully he takes the next step this year and I think he can, he just has to prove it this season.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by mw147 View Post

                                I don't see Pulock on the point of a power play. He has not looked good there in the past.

                                If Dobson is not up to it, I agree about trying Pelech. Pulock plays PP and PK, no reason Pelech can't do the same.

                                Actually Dobson and Pelech should probably be the point guys on the 2 units anyway. Who plays with who is to be determined.
                                Pulock will certainly get PP time. He just needs to learn how to get his shot through and that comes with maturity.

                                I'd imagine the Isles PP unit is going to have 4 forwards, at least on the 1st unit, but probably both.

                                I can see:

                                Unit 1:
                                One of Pulock/Pelech/Dobson (up top)
                                Barzal (up top)
                                Lee
                                Palmieri
                                Parise

                                Unit 2:
                                One of Pulock/Pelech/Dobson (up top)
                                Bailey (up top)
                                Nelson
                                Beauvillier
                                Wahlstrom

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